#1 Abbreviations of official releases by longtalleric 28.05.2012 12:02

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Below you'll find a list of abbreviations of officially released Camel albums. This might make it easier to refer to such a release when you mention it in a post; you can use the abbreviation mentioned here and if needed, link to this post.
As always, additions and suggestions are more than welcome!


Albums

CA - Camel, first release from 1973 (MCA Records; MUPS 473) and all identical re-issues (incl. the 1992 re-issue on Camel Productions; CP-002CD)
CA2002 - Camel, 2002 re-issue (Universal International, MCA Records; 8829252) and all identical re-issues (incl. the 2009 re-issue)

MI - Mirage, first release from 1974 (Deram, Gama Records Limited; SML 1107) and all identical re-issues
MI2002 - Mirage, 2002 re-issue (Deram; 8829292) and all identical re-issues (incl. the 2009 re-issue)

TSG - The Snow Goose, first release from 1975 (Gama Records Limited, Decca; SKL-R 5207) and all identical re-issues
TSG2002 - The Snow Goose, 2002 re-issue (Decca; 8829302)
TSG2009 - The Snow Goose, 2009 re-issue (Decca, Universal; 531 4614) and all identical re-issues

MM - Moonmadness, first release from 1976 (Decca, Gama Records Limited; TXS-R 115) and all identical re-issues
MM2002 - Moonmadness, 2002 re-issue (Decca; 882 931-2) and all identical re-issues
MM2009 - Moonmadness, 2009 re-issue (Decca, Universal; 531 6187) and all identical re-issues

RD - Rain Dances, first release from 1977 (Decca; TXS-R 124) and all identical re-issues
RD1991 - Rain Dances, 1991 re-issue (Decca; 820 725-2)
RD2009 - Rain Dances, 2009 re-issue (Decca, Universal; 531 4610) and all identical re-issues

BR - Breathless, first release from 1978 (Decca, Gama Records Limited; TXS-R 132, XZAL 15942P) and all identical re-issues (incl. the 1992 re-issue and the 2009 re-issue on Universal International; UICY-94138)
BR2009 - Breathless, 2009 re-issue (Cherry Red; ECLEC2155)

ALR - A Live Record, first release from 1978 (Decca; DBC-R7, DBC-R8) and all identical re-issues
ALR2002 - A Live Record, 2002 re-issue (Decca, Universal; 8829282) and all identical re-issues (incl. the 2009 re-issue)

ICSYHFH - I Can See Your House From Here, first release from 1979 (Decca; TXS.R137) and all identical re-issues (incl. the 1990 re-issue and the 2009 re-issue on Universal International; UICY-94139)
ICSYHFH2009 - I Can See Your House From Here, 2009 re-issue (Cherry Red; ECLEC2158)

NU - Nude, first release from 1981 (Decca, Gama Records Limited; SKL 5323) and all identical re-issues (incl. the 1983 re-issues and Japanese 2009 re-issue on Universal International; UICY-94140)
NU2009 - Nude, 2009 re-issue (Cherry Red; ECLEC 2159)

TSF - The Single Factor, first release from 1982 (Gama Records Limited, Decca; SKL 5328) and all identical re-issues
TSF1994 - The Single Factor, 1994 re-issue (Decca; 800 081-2) and all identical re-issues (incl. the Japanese 2009 re-issue on Universal International, Decca; UICY-94141 and the Esoteric 2009 re-issue on Cherry Red; ECLEC2156)

ST - Stationary Traveller, first release from 1984 (Decca; SKL 5334, 820 020-1) and all identical re-issues (incl. the Japanese 2009 re-issue on Universal International; UICY-94142)
ST2004 - Stationary Traveller, 2004 re-issue (Camel Productions; CP-012CD)
ST2009 - Stationary Traveller, 2009 re-issue (Cherry Red; ECLEC 2154) which has the same tracks as we find on ST2004, but in a different order

PP - Pressure Points, first release from 1984 (Decca; SKL 5338) and all identical re-issues (incl. the 1987 and Japanese 2009 re-issue on Universal International, Decca; UICY-94143)
PP2009 - Pressure Points, 2009 re-issue (Cherry Red; ECLEC22162)

DAD - Dust And Dreams, first release from 1991 (Camel Productions; CP-001CD) and all identical re-issues

OTR72 - On The Road 1972, first release from 1992 (Camel Productions; CP-003CD) and all identical re-issues

NLG - Never Let Go, first release from 1993 (Camel Productions; CP-004CD) and all identical re-issues

OTR82 - On The Road 1982, first release from 1994 (Camel Productions; CP-005CD) and all identical re-issues

HOT - Harbour Of Tears, first release from 1996 (Camel Productions; CP-006CD) and all identical re-issues

OTR81 - On The Road 1981, first release from 1997 (Camel Productions; CP-007CD) and all identical re-issues

COA - Coming Of Age, first release from 1998 (Camel Productions; CP-008CD) and all identical re-issues

RA - Rajaz, first release from 1999 (Camel Productions; CP-009CD) and all identical re-issues

GOL - Gods Of Light, first release from 2000 (Camel Productions; CP-010CD) and all identical re-issues

TPC - The Paris Collection, first release from 2001 (Camel Productions; CP-011CD) and all identical re-issues

ANAAW - A Nod And A Wink, first release from 2002 (Camel Productions; CP-013CD)
ANAAW2007 - A Nod And A Wink, Japanese 2007 re-ssue (WHD Entertainment, Inc.; IECP-10132)


Compilation Albums

GTc - Greasy Truckers Live At Dingwalls Dance Hall, 1973 compilation with one track on side 1 by Camel (Greasy Truckers; GT 4997 and Gama; DS 3265/1-2)

MITSGc - Mirage / The Snow Goose, 1977 repackage of the 2 regular albums (Decca / Gama; DCS 15100, DCS 15101, XZAL12754-P, XZAL13718-P)

CHc - Chameleon, 1981 compilation (Decca / Gama; SKL 5325, STAR 5250, 6.24936 AP)

ACCc - A Compact Compilation, 1985 compilation (Rhino Records; RNCD 5900)

TCc - The Collection, 1985 compilation (Castle Communications; CCSCD 116, CCSLP 116)

CCc - Camel / Caravan, 1989 compilation (DeAgostini / Deram; IGDA 1127 / IGDA 1128)

LSCc - Landscapes, 1991 compilation (Pickwick; ELITE003CDP)

ECHc - Echoes, 1993 compilation (Decca; 844 340-2)

LSc - Lunar Sea - An Anthology 1973 - 1985, 2001 compilation (Decca; 882995-2)

REc - Rainbow's End - An Anthology 1973-1985, 2010 compilation (Decca / Universal Music; 532 938-3)

STc - Supertwister 2012 compilation (ZOUNDS; 27000 20141)


Singles / EP's

NLGs - Never Let Go, single from 1973 (MCA Records; MCS 6518) and identical releases

FOTSGs - Flight Of The Snow Goose, single from 1975 (Gama Records; FR 13581) and identical releases

TSGs - The Snow Goose, single from 1975 (Gama Records; FR 13603) and identical releases

ANs - Another Night, single from 1976 (Decca; FR 13656) and identical releases
ANps - Another Night, promo single from 1976 (Janus Records; J-262) which has the mono version on side A and the stereo version on side B

HOTSs - Highways Of The Sun, single from 1977 (Decca; FR 13729) and identical releases

BRs - Breathless, single from 1978 (Decca; MO 1826, with Rainbow's End as a B side) and identical releases
BRps - Breathless, promo single from 1978 (London Records; CM-1087) (has Wing And A Prayer as a B side)

YLISTMs - Your Love Is Stranger Than Mine, single from 1979 (Decca; FR 13871) and identical releases

RRs - Remote Romance, single (with 2 tracks on side 2) from 1979 (Decca; FR 13879) and identical releases (incl. the promo single)
RRs1 - Remote Romance, single from 1980 (Gama; 6.12669) and identical releases

LIEs - Lies, single from 1981 (Decca; 6198 432) and identical releases

NEAs - No Easy Answer, single from 1982 (Decca; 9-09 002) and identical releases
NEAms - No Easy Answer, 4 track 12" single from 1982 (Gama Records; SKL (DJ))

SVs - Selva, single from 1982 (Decca; 6198 557) and identical releases

LGs - Long Goodbyes, single from 1984 (Polydor/Metronome; 881 387-7) and identical releases

CADMs - Cloak And Dagger Man, single from 1984 (Decca; 820 062-7) and identical releases
CADMms - Cloak And Dagger Man, 12" single from 1984 (Decca; 820 062-1)


Videos

PPvhs - Pressure Points, first VHS release from 1984 (Polygram; 041 058 1)
PPdvd - Pressure Points, DVD re-issue from 2003 (Camel Productions; CP806DVD)

TPvhs - Total Pressure, first VHS release from 1994 (Camel Productions)
TPdvd - Total Pressure, DVD re-issue from 2007 (Camel Productions; CP809DVD)

COAvhs - Coming Of Age, first VHS release from 1998 (Camel Productions; CP-008V)
COAdvd - Coming Of Age, DVD re-issue from 2002 (Camel Productions; CP803DVD)

CVdvd - Curriculum Vitae, first release from 2003 (Camel Productions; CP805DVD)

F1dvd - Footage, first release from 2005 (Camel Productions; CP807DVD)

F2dvd - Footage II, first release from 2005 (Camel Productions; CP808DVD)

MDdvd - Moondances, first release from 2007 (Camel Productions; CP810DVD)

TOFdvd - The Opening Farewell, first release from 2010 (Camel Productions; CP811DVD)


BBC Transcription Recordings

BBC1974 - "In Concert #83: Camel/Raymond Froggatt", BBC Transcription Services LP, Use expires 31.3.79 (CN-2165/S)

BBC1975 - "In Concert #101: Pilot/Camel", BBC Transcription Services LP, Issued week 35/75 (CN-2329/S)

BBC1977 - "In Concert #159: Camel", BBC Transcription Services LP, Issued week 46/77 (CN-2935/SQ)

BRH1977 - "BBC Rock Hour #50: Camel", London Wavelength, 2x reel-to-reel tape, 14th November 1977

BBC1981 - "In Concert #250: Camel", BBC Transcription Services LP, Issued week 19/81 (CN-3781/S)

#2 RE: Abbreviations of official releases by longtalleric 28.05.2012 12:03

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I think the list above is complete.
Any additions?
Suggestions?

#3 RE: Abbreviations of official releases by got the hump 28.05.2012 16:14

NICE JOB lte, you've been a busy man!

A few additoinal considerations.

In the Official Recordings thread we're going to want to refer to compilations, at least to the Rainbow's End compilation as it contains some significant BBC stuff. Not sure if there's any other compilation material relevant but as the intention is to be reasonably comprehensive in the listing I guess at least the "all Camel" compilations should be here.

Total Pressure was released by CP on VHS for a short while and because it was not identical to the DVD we might need to refer to it separately (the sound was raw soundboard (mono), it had a timecode). Perhaps there is a case for an exception like TPvhs?

The Official Recordings thread also needs to refer to the single with the Lunar Sea live B-side (Hammersmith 14-Jun-1976) but adding all singles is a load of extra work, we need to consider how best to handle the issue.

#4 RE: Abbreviations of official releases by longtalleric 28.05.2012 16:54

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Zitat von got the hump
NICE JOB lte, you've been a busy man!


Thank you! :)

Zitat von got the hump

A few additoinal considerations.

In the Official Recordings thread we're going to want to refer to compilations, at least to the Rainbow's End compilation as it contains some significant BBC stuff. Not sure if there's any other compilation material relevant but as the intention is to be reasonably comprehensive in the listing I guess at least the "all Camel" compilations should be here.


I wasn't aware of that fact! As with the regular album releases, I'll use discogs as a a guide. Discogs mentions 9 compilations. I also wanted to add the Greasy Truckers LP. So that's 10. That shouldn't be a problem.

Zitat von got the hump

Total Pressure was released by CP on VHS for a short while and because it was not identical to the DVD we might need to refer to it separately (the sound was raw soundboard (mono), it had a timecode). Perhaps there is a case for an exception like TPvhs?


I always assumed that the Total Pressure DVD was a true re-release of that VHS - just like the Pressure Points DVD and the Coming of Age DVD. But if it's different, yes, we'll need to add codes for these as well. Does this only count for Total Pressure or should we add, say, Coming of Age as well (as the VHS doesn't have the bonus material that can be found on the DVD, so it is different).

Zitat von got the hump

The Official Recordings thread also needs to refer to the single with the Lunar Sea live B-side (Hammersmith 14-Jun-1976) but adding all singles is a load of extra work, we need to consider how best to handle the issue.


According to Discogs there are 9 singles. I'll add these as well. I'll add a 'c' for the compilations and an 's' for the singles, to make it a bit more clear.

#5 RE: Abbreviations of official releases by got the hump 28.05.2012 17:25

Agree with all those recommendations, nice idea to append "c" and "s".

I like your distinction between "non-identical" releases, so yes I would treat CoA VHS differently.

But the Pressure Point DVD is identical with the VHS I believe.
Someone might argue it should be PPvhs because it came before the DVD, but I prefer PPdvd on the grounds it is the definitive release.

#6 RE: Abbreviations of official releases by got the hump 28.05.2012 18:05

Zitat
PP - Pressure Points, the first release from 1984 (Decca; SKL 5338) and all identical re-issues (incl. the 1987 and 2009 re-issues)


We need a PP2009 on the Esoteric label separately, since it is a 2CD release with the additional songs which together cover the same set as PPdvd.

Edit: noticed also an html formatting problem with the No Easy Answer single

#7 RE: Abbreviations of official releases by longtalleric 28.05.2012 18:38

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Zitat von got the hump
Agree with all those recommendations, nice idea to append "c" and "s".

I like your distinction between "non-identical" releases, so yes I would treat CoA VHS differently.

But the Pressure Point DVD is identical with the VHS I believe.
Someone might argue it should be PPvhs because it came before the DVD, but I prefer PPdvd on the grounds it is the definitive release.


I believe there were only a few Camel VHS releases:
- Pressure Points
- Total Pressure
- Coming Of Age

As I'll have to make duplicate entries for TP and COA, I think it wouldn't hurt to list PP twice as well. That way, people can refer to the VHS specifically as they wish, even though I think PPdvd will be used more often.

Did I miss some official (!) Camel VHS releases?

#8 RE: Abbreviations of official releases by longtalleric 28.05.2012 18:43

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Zitat von got the hump

Zitat
PP - Pressure Points, the first release from 1984 (Decca; SKL 5338) and all identical re-issues (incl. the 1987 and 2009 re-issues)


We need a PP2009 on the Esoteric label separately, since it is a 2CD release with the additional songs which together cover the same set as PPdvd.



Very well spotted!
I missed the 2009 release because it isn't listed at Discogs. I try and find out the specs of the Esoteric release.

Zitat von got the hump

Edit: noticed also an html formatting problem with the No Easy Answer single



Thanks, and fixed - the URL contained an unrecognized character, so I changed it using bitly. :)
EDIT: changed it by pointing to our very own Pink Camel website!

#9 RE: Abbreviations of official releases by Pink-Camel 28.05.2012 18:58

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I missing tge Single "Long Goodbyes".

http://pink-camel.de/7-Inch-Vinyls.htm

#10 RE: Abbreviations of official releases by longtalleric 28.05.2012 19:07

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Zitat von got the hump
We need a PP2009 on the Esoteric label separately, since it is a 2CD release with the additional songs which together cover the same set as PPdvd.



Added. Plus some more Esoteric re-issues!

#11 RE: Abbreviations of official releases by longtalleric 28.05.2012 19:09

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Zitat von Pink-Camel
I missing tge Single "Long Goodbyes".

http://pink-camel.de/7-Inch-Vinyls.htm



Or Never Let Go, on the same page!
And more...
I'll add these too.
Thanks, Michael!

#12 RE: Abbreviations of official releases by got the hump 28.05.2012 19:47

Agreed about PPvhs and PPdvd. Not sure whether CV was ever on video?

#13 RE: Abbreviations of official releases by longtalleric 28.05.2012 20:05

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Zitat von got the hump
Agreed about PPvhs and PPdvd. Not sure whether CV was ever on video?



I'm not sure either. Could be... but I guess not. Progarchives doesn't mention a VHS (where it does for other DVD (re-)releases).

Could you fill in the blanks for me regarding the TPvhs? When was it released, and what was the catalogue number?

#14 RE: Abbreviations of official releases by got the hump 28.05.2012 21:08

Not sure about TPvhs, I had a copy of a copy and it was pretty rare. I'll trawl through the some records and newsletters and see if that throws any light on the matter.

#15 RE: Abbreviations of official releases by longtalleric 28.05.2012 21:19

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Zitat von got the hump
Not sure about TPvhs, I had a copy of a copy and it was pretty rare. I'll trawl through the some records and newsletters and see if that throws any light on the matter.


That would be great, thank you in advance! :)
I already searched through my mail but the only thing I found related to this was the announcement of the DVD (in a newsletter from 2006).

Aside from that info, I think the list is complete now.

I guess there might be some more singles and compilations out there (I remember a compilation right as I type this, gotta add it right after posting this) but I'll add these as they come along. Please notify me if you know of any more releases that should be in this list.

#16 RE: Abbreviations of official releases by got the hump 28.05.2012 21:48

The only significant reference I can find is from the Skylines website here.

It is the CP Newsletter from Spring 1994:

Zitat

CAMEL VIDEOS
visual affirmation

Pressure Points, Camel Live in Concert. This 90 minute show was
recorded at London's Hammersmith Odeon in 1984 but has been
unavailable for several years. Now, CP is able to offer Presssre
Points which contains extra visuals - added by Producer Mike Mansfield
(CP will be interested to see if fans are able to spot Andrew, Colin,
David Paton and others in cameo roles). Pressure Points does not,
however, contain the entire performance and CP is at last able to
offer this video also. From the archives of Camel's own collection,
entitled Total Pressure CP has been given permission to share with
fans the entire concert, unedited, undubbed and unmixed, just as it
was performed on ihe night, time-code included! Total Pressure will be
CP's first official video bootleg.



I think it is safe to assume year of release is therefore 1994.

Now checking through label numbers of releases in chronolgical order of release, there is no appropriate gap around 1994 which could be taken by the video (it ought to be around CP-004/5 which are NLG and OTR82 respectively).
And thinking back I seem to remember there may not have been a label number, perhaps because it was a small experimental run.

Some were definitely released though as it is referred to fleetingly elsewhere on the Skylines site and my records say I borrowed an original to make my first DVD copy (long since replaced with the superior TPdvd authored by David Minasian).

That's the best I can come up with for now.

#17 RE: Abbreviations of official releases by longtalleric 28.05.2012 22:36

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I agree. I also found some other newsletters but no mention of TP anymore. So, we'll go with 1994 and without a catalogue number, as it probably never existed. :)

#18 RE: Abbreviations of official releases by longtalleric 29.05.2012 12:22

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The list is "official" now - if you refer to an official release, you can do so by using the abbreviation mentioned in the top post.
Of course, anyone is free to use these abbreviations (or not). :)

I believe I have addressed all suggestions mentioned above; please let me know if I missed something (I'm only human... and old). :)

Thank you all for your contributions!

#19 RE: Abbreviations of official releases by got the hump 29.05.2012 13:10

Link below for Greasy Trucker's 2CD release contains details of the live performances. We already have a link for the LP but just adding this reply for reference purposes.
http://www.discogs.com/Various-Greasy-Tr...release/1916997

#20 RE: Abbreviations of official releases by longtalleric 29.05.2012 13:30

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Zitat von got the hump
Link below for Greasy Trucker's 2CD release contains details of the live performances. We already have a link for the LP but just adding this reply for reference purposes.
http://www.discogs.com/Various-Greasy-Tr...release/1916997



Thanks!
I linked to the LP version because GTc wasn't officially released on CD (yet) - and since we're listing official releases here... ;)
But for informational purposes, your reply is more than welcome.
I hope to change all links to pink-camel.de one day... ;)

#21 RE: Abbreviations of official releases by got the hump 29.05.2012 14:50

Yes I was thinking it would be better for longevity to keep all references "in-house" at pink-camel.de.
So I guess it might be a good idea to save snapshots of all external discography pages just in case they might be needed for future reference ;)

#22 RE: Abbreviations of official releases by got the hump 30.05.2012 18:56

Suggest we add the BBC transcription material to the list. They were official in the sense of being produced legally even if not available to the general public. Then I can refer to them in our analysis of live sources. If you agree I'll add them in a separate section. Discography pages are not available but could be added later.

#23 RE: Abbreviations of official releases by longtalleric 31.05.2012 17:08

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Zitat von got the hump
Suggest we add the BBC transcription material to the list. They were official in the sense of being produced legally even if not available to the general public. Then I can refer to them in our analysis of live sources. If you agree I'll add them in a separate section. Discography pages are not available but could be added later.




Yes, a separate section would be great.
And finally, also a section for bootlegs?

#24 RE: Abbreviations of official releases by got the hump 31.05.2012 18:17

Zitat von longtalleric

Yes, a separate section would be great.
And finally, also a section for bootlegs?


Seriously, bootlegs lte?
Seems to me they're well covered by the recording index.
Or did you mean commercial bootlegs only?
Can be quite difficult to distinguish between home-made boots and commercial boots these days.

#25 RE: Abbreviations of official releases by longtalleric 31.05.2012 19:15

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Zitat von got the hump

Zitat von longtalleric

Yes, a separate section would be great.
And finally, also a section for bootlegs?


Seriously, bootlegs lte?
Seems to me they're well covered by the recording index.
Or did you mean commercial bootlegs only?
Can be quite difficult to distinguish between home-made boots and commercial boots these days.




You're right. I totally forgot about the recording index when I wrote that.


And no, let's not make a difference between home-made boots and commercial boots, as the latter are most certainly sourced from the former. :)

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